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Originally Posted by funkdoctorspock

I can only respond by saying that I'm a massive fan of players with great attitudes and loyalty to there respective squads. Shaq did that with the Lakers. He was a team guy.

Well, I'm afraid we disagree here. Remember Shaq was the guy who got drafted by the Orlando and, when the contract ended, ditched them and went to LA. There's very, very uncommon for elite NBA players to do this. On recent times, apart from Shaq, there are not many NBA superstars who did the same as he did.

Also, we need to determine what exactly means being loyal to the team, etc. Note this:

1. On one of his last seasons with the LAL the guy got injured, don't remember exactly where, I believe it was something on the leg. The injury ocurred during the season. The season ended, the months passed by and we arrive at preseason and start of the new season. Instead of taking care of business and having surgery, something which was required, in order to be able to play, no, he let the months pass by and, when preseason started and it was obvious he was not ready to play, did he went to doctors to have his surgery, etc. Then a long recovery period ensued, with the season already under way.

At the time I quite clearly remember his explanation for not taking care of business during the, long, NBA off-season: "I got injured on company time, so I will recover on company time.". I'm sorry to say, because I enjoyed tremendously his great contributions to my team and his stellar performance, espcially during the 1999-2000 season, but to hear him saying this, made me realise he was a "me first" player, not really loyal to anyone but him.

Note that, more or less on 1999, when I got my first Internet access, I started following with passionate interest all LAL related things. Every day I read article after article about the team, I followed many games live (via webradio, most of the time) and, living in Portugal (how do you like our export, #7, by the way? , with the timezone differences, it was not easy... Anyway, what I want to say is that people are not always very well equipped to judge what exactly is happening and why it happens. People, most of the time, just gets to hear or read what trickles down to them and what generates most controversy, etc. To really understand what is really happening one has to follow all this with deep detail. Only passionate fans do that.

Kobe really isn't. When things are going well, he's fine. When things aren't, he throws teammates under the bus, demands trades, asks for GM's to be fired. It really is unacceptable. Dr. Buss was right when he said earlier on this season that Kobe is tradeable. Seriously, who wants that type of player representing your organization?

Again, I disagree here. The issue is simply this: Kobe adores the Lakers but most important he HATES losing. Nothing more nothing less. Some history on this:

1. He has stated many times that his favourite team, being a child and teenager has always been the LAL.

2. His all-time favourite player was Magic Johnson (my all-time favourite, too, by the way).

3. A few years back, when his contract with the LAL expired, he became a free agent and could go elsewhere. Being the great player he is, he got offers from many places. He was interested on being on a team with a possibility to contend for the championship. Being an extremely hardworking player (he works hard practicly every offseason day and you have to read it to believe the extremely rigourous regimen he performs; hours and hours practicing, working out, etc; it's crazy really) he says that he cannot accept being on a losing organization.

4. For that reason and because he wanted to be a Laker for life, he asked the organisation what were their intentions, because it was obvious, after Shaq's and other veterans departures or retirements, the the LAL would be on rebuild or semi-rebuild mode.

5. If the organisation intentions were to go for a long rebuild period he told them it was not acceptable for him and he didn't want to waste year after year on a losing organisation. Here, one may say that he selfish but, if so, most competitive players, on every sport, are, because, if given the choice, they always choose the team which is more powerful, right? After all, if they are not a bit selfish, on a good way, meaning, they want the opposing team to lose, then maybe they are a bit weak mentally and will never be winners.

6. The organisation assured him that they would go for a fast rebuild period, that they would soon surround him with good players and the idea was to be a contending team pretty soon.

7. The years went by, Kobe said nothing but results were: no playoffs on the first season and first round playoff exists on the second and third ones.

8. At the same time, Kobe saw several possibilities for trades or signings, which would, according to him and maybe to many LAL fans, improve the team, not materialise. I especially remember the possibilities to acquire Baron Davis, practically for nothing and also Jason Kidd.

9. He got disgusted with what he perceived as the organisation having cheated him and not being really interested on going on a fast rebuild mode. Instead it appeared that ownership was just interested in keeping him as a cashcow, meaning, he would be filling seats and generating cash, merely because of the amazing player he is, but the real possibilities to contend would not be there. Especially important considering that he's now entering his, so called, prime years. After those, his physical skills will start to deteriorate and career end will be just around the corner.

10. Well, this pre-pre-season started and he started saying that he wanted out. That he no longed trusted the organisation, etc, etc. Basically a matter of trust, as I already explained, and that's were we are now. No one knows what will happen afterwards, it's clear he has a optout clause at the end of the 2009 season, so, we'll see what happens.

11. As for demanding trades, firing GMs, etc, practically every LAL fan (me included) was saying exactly the same. That the organisation was not doing enough. That they were not improving the team as they should and that the GM (Mitch Kupchak) is trash. Every one of us dreams about having the Logo (Jerry West) back as GM. So, basically, he was saying the same as most LAL fans were saying. Nothing really selfish or improper. Well, maybe improper in the sense that it caused a lot of fuss on the media, etc. But, it seems that he was already voicing his discontent for a long time, internally, and got fed up that they would not listen to him. Remember the promises they made him at the time he signed a new contract...

Shaq is old now. Centers at his current age break down and don't score as much.

Yeap, that's what I was saying. Had the LAL signed him, for the ridiculous amounts he was demanding, they now would be on an extremely bad, bad situation, with cap room wiped out (just Shaq's contract amounted for more than half of that capspace!) and a lazy, underperforming, injury prone and aging center on their hands. Maybe it was not such a bad idea getting rid of him while they could, eh?

Maybe you managed to realise, from my explanations above, that not everything is as it seems and, sometimes, there's a lot more behind the scenes things going on, that the casual fan is not aware off.

P.S.: I'm trying to find a good resource for Man Utd player photos. More specifically photos to insert on the "Football Manager" game. So, photos where they are facing the camera and standing still. Any suggestions? Maybe the media section, on the forum, has those, but I can't access it, so I don't know what's in there. Thanks!