[funkdoctorspock]

This problem has been been plaguing football for awhile now.

Various campaigns and awareness efforts have been made to curb/stop/bring about change to these incidents.



Tackling exclusion

The sad reality is that the governing bodies have done very little about it.



So this brings up the recent fine which the Croatian FA was given to by FIFA in the amount of 15 000 euro.

Rio Ferdinand, a major advocate for removing racism in football comments about it.

What are your thoughts about racism in football and what do you feel needs to be done?

Rio Ferdinand has called on FIFA to start deducting points from teams whose supporters chant racial or homophobic abuse at players.

Ferdinand was furious that the Croatian FA was only fined £15,000 for the behaviour of their fans in the recent defeat to England in Zagreb.

Emile Heskey was the target of disgraceful chanting during England's 4-1 win.

But Ferdinand has had enough of minor punishments.

He feels FIFA should stop talking and start acting tough in a bid to drive away one of the main scourges in the game.

"The football authorities need to look at themselves," the England vice-captain told BBC Radio Five Live.

"Sepp Blatter likes to speak up about things that are good for FIFA's image. I would love to see them stand up and dish out the right punishments for these incidents.

"They make a lot of comments about what they are going to do but they never back up the words with actions.

"Croatia were fined a few thousand quid. What good is that going to do? That is not going to stop people shouting racist or homophobic abuse.

"If things like this keep happening you have to take points off them.

"Then the punters will realise the team is going to be punished."

The FA are still investigating the Fratton Park incident, when Spurs fans vented their fury at Portsmouth defender Sol Campbell, who controversially quit White Hart Lane for Arsenal in 2001.

History suggests the FA will not deal with the matter as leniently as FIFA appear to do, although Ferdinand is demanding more.

"The high-tech cameras should be able to pick up the people who are doing that kind of stuff and eject them from the ground," he said.

"That is the only way I can see to stop it happening.

"We are talking about a football match. There are young kids present who want to be entertained, not hear someone a couple of rows back slagging players off."

Ferdinand and his team-mates should not be side-tracked by such matters on Saturday when they anticipate the support of a sell-out 90,000 crowd at Wembley for the World Cup encounter with Group Six underdogs Kazakhstan.

The Manchester United man does not share Fabio Capello's belief that the Three Lions find life easier away from their own ground as the high expectation levels sometimes stifle the England players.

However, the 30-year-old suggests the noise levels and sheer passion for their team is something English fans can learn from their Croatian counterparts, if not the unsavoury aspects of their support.

"I love playing at Wembley," said Ferdinand.

"But maybe the fans do get a bit agitated if we don't score inside the first 20 minutes.

"I would just ask them to get behind us and sing their hearts out.

"If it is a real cauldron, like it is in Zagreb, that helps. No-one enjoys facing 90,000."

Ferdinand is keen to stress the improvement England have made since Capello succeeded Steve McClaren is gradual rather than spectacular.

Although some members of the Italian's squad are relishing their opportunities, Theo Walcott being an obvious example, Ferdinand prefers to take a lot of small steps as opposed to one gigantic leap which could end in disaster.

"It is too much if people think of us as a completely different team to the one we were six months ago," said Ferdinand.

"Hopefully we can maintain the steady rise we are on at the moment. We have to qualify first and hopefully, by the time we are in the tournament, we will be ready to go."

Given the shambolic attempt to reach Euro 2008, it could be argued merely getting to South Africa in two years' time would be an achievement.

Ferdinand accepts the misery of missing out has helped provide the spark which Capello has managed to ignite.

"The lads were hurt not getting to the Euros," he said.

"But it is a bit of both because the management is different as well.

"Fabio has a winning mentality. He has proved that.

"And for us to do what he wants, we have to concentrate at every moment of the game.

"We are very focussed and hopefully that can be the difference in this qualifying campaign."

Source

[RobsonLegend]

Well, for starters, if there are going to be monetary fines issued, they need to be a bit more substantial than €15000. That'd be a pretty laughable amount if the issue wasn't so serious.

Action is only going to be taken as seriously by the offenders as the governing body is in taking it.

Monetary fines that actually hurt the wallets of offending players and/or federations. I'm thinking in the hundreds of thousands here.

Ban fans caught hurling racial slurs. From all games, be they internationals or domestic league games. You want to be a twat and act like an uneducated fool? Keep that out of the game, period. Lifetime ban? Sure.

Start eliminating ticket allocations for away games and tournaments. When groups of fans come to the realization that "a few bad apples" (a common defense by the masses) could potentially screw up their chances of following their own team, maybe there'll be a bit more peer enforcement.

Next-to-last step if troubles persist:

Qualifiers in front of empty stands. There won't be trouble from the stands when there's nobody in the stands to begin with.

And finally:

Ban the team. From one tournament to start with (whatever qualifier is active), and for multiple years if necessary.

I'm all for grace in dealing with tough situations and trying your best to educate the uneducated, but there comes a point where if the uneducated indicate that they're not open to learning, then corrective action is needed.

[mg91]

Originally Posted by funkdoctorspock

The sad reality is that the governing bodies have done very little about it.

Of course they haven't! Who would want to stop racism in football, when clubs in debt are proving to be such a plague on the game?

The governing bodies are to busy harassing English clubs to bother fixing problems anywhere else, when in my opinion, they should be applauding the English for cleaning up their act. There is no denying the hooligan culture that existed in the English game in times past, and this, no doubt, included a lot of racism. However, the English have cleaned up their act considerably since their ban from Europe, and I cannot fathom why FIFA and UEFA have not even considered such a solution for nations whose fans, be they at national or club games, constantly abuse the players of opposing teams.

If racism was a problem in England, have no doubts that Blatter and his pet Platini, would be the first to condemn England.

For me, the situation could be handled in a number of ways.

Firstly, any fan, and I mean ANY fan, caught directing racist comments at someone on the field, should be kicked out of the stadium. If this person should repeat the offence, he should be banned for life. There is absolutely no room in football for racism.

However, if individuals cannot be caught, which would probably be the most common occurrence, then a SUBSTANTIAL fine should be issued. I'm talking millions of pounds. The whole point of a punishment is to deter the offender/s and to stop the offence from occurring again. A slap on the wrist is not enough any more. People all over the world cannot possibly cry ignorance to this issue any more. Awareness has well and truly been raised.

Should the racism continue then dock the team points. Sure, you'll piss of the fans, but since when should the authorities abide by what the offenders want?

After that though, I completely agree with everything RobsonLegend has said. If the fans want to be that persisitent. Don't allow them into games. If you think that will result in mass rioting, have the match played at a neutral venue, in front of an empty crowd.

The racism will continue unless the governing bodies are willing to do whatever is needed to get rid of it, and that means Mr Blatter, that you have to actually turn you're attention away from the little scheming board you have in you're office with the heading: How To Fuck English Clubs Over. I know, this must be such a disappointment for you...

God I hate that guy.

[Prongs]

There is no point in deducting points from a particular club for a set of idiots booing black players . Racism in football is just a part of racism in that particular place .

I don't want to hurt any other city/club fans here . But a couple of years ago , people boo'ed SWP en all in madrid when england played spain .

Its the city and the people who are fucked up , not particular club .

Only way to stop that in football would be , to keep continuing the anti racism activities , petitions en all that and also , video taping the fans during the game . I mean ffs its not going to cost much . If there is a bunch of people who boo . Find them and arrest them.

[Dirtycheat]

this is a really tough issue because i cant see many people condoning racism but how would you go about stopping it?

some things are obvious to spot like the racist chants, animal noises etc that players like eto'o were subjected to alot. However what if racists turn to booing and just booing? Would it be racist to boo a black player?

What i am saying is, if you go hard on racist chants then people will just turn to things like booing or jeering but with racist intentions. Either way, it is common sense that they should go in hard.


Point deductions might work because the racist fans will be punished aswell as the fans around him. Whilst this seems unfair, im pretty sure the fans around them wont let it happen again. It will alienate the racists from this sport and imo that is the only way forward. We cant rely soley on evolution to rid humanity of these cavemen.

What pisses me off though is the way uefa have done fuck all about this. It has been a problem in football for years, you dont really get it in other sports because most of them are well governed. UEFA just take the piss though. What is 15,000 pounds to a whole country?

I remember the aragones incident too which i found pretty insulting.

Originally Posted by prongs

There is no point in deducting points from a particular club for a set of idiots booing black players . Racism in football is just a part of racism in that particular place .

But if it is done on a football pitch then it is a problem with football. Fans are part of football and their actions can do good for the sport but can also damage it. Regardless, racist chants etc would be racist outside of the football ground. It seems to me that football pitches have become shelters to people who want to dish out racist abuse because no one will do anything about it.

[RobsonLegend]

Originally Posted by mg91

Firstly, any fan, and I mean ANY fan, caught directing racist comments at someone on the field, should be kicked out of the stadium. If this person should repeat the offence, he should be banned for life. There is absolutely no room in football for racism.

Correct. There is absolutely no room for racism in football. Thus, zero tolerance. You get caught directing racist comments as a fan, you're banned for life. Period.

Originally Posted by Prongs

There is no point in deducting points from a particular club for a set of idiots booing black players . Racism in football is just a part of racism in that particular place .

I don't want to hurt any other city/club fans here . But a couple of years ago , people boo'ed SWP en all in madrid when england played spain .

Its the city and the people who are fucked up , not particular club .

There is also absolutely a point in deducting points from a club. Remember what I said earlier about slicing ticket allotments for away games and how it would/could create a level of peer enforcement from the stands (think about this: If Joe Whatever Club Fan is a good lad, and most of them are, they will find ways to shut Jim Asshole Racist Fan up because his actions jeopardize their own potential ability to enjoy their team in action)? Well, apply that to points being docked in a title race now. There will definitely be peer enforcement in that case.

Also, there's something else to consider with regards to hurting the club: if you're the owner of an establishment and you open your doors to the public and something untoward happens in that establishment (a drug bust, a rape, a murder, a drunken brawl, underaged drinking, etc.), you the owner are also at least partly culpable for what happened. You assume responsibility for damages, and the legal charges on those vary.

Why should football clubs be any different?

[Prongs]

My point really is simple .

Racism is the worst form of hooliganism according to me
I think few clubs , very few clubs , have such idiotic hooligans . If they are racist . its not the club's fault . Majority of my club don't do any of that rubbish . If one fan does that , he should be arrested and sent to prison . Not my club . The club don't go asking fans to support them or ask them to be racist . So why punish the club ? How fair is that ?

[mg91]

Originally Posted by Prongs

My point really is simple .

Racism is the worst form of hooliganism according to me
I think few clubs , very few clubs , have such idiotic hooligans . If they are racist . its not the club's fault . Majority of my club don't do any of that rubbish . If one fan does that , he should be arrested and sent to prison . Not my club . The club don't go asking fans to support them or ask them to be racist . So why punish the club ? How fair is that ?

In my opinion the club itself should be punishing the offenders. If they don't then they are just as bad as the fans doing it and hence should be punished. The clubs themselves are the most important part of getting the message across, so if they're not doing their part, they should be punished.

[RobsonLegend]

Originally Posted by Prongs

My point really is simple .

Racism is the worst form of hooliganism according to me
I think few clubs , very few clubs , have such idiotic hooligans . If they are racist . its not the club's fault . Majority of my club don't do any of that rubbish . If one fan does that , he should be arrested and sent to prison . Not my club . The club don't go asking fans to support them or ask them to be racist . So why punish the club ? How fair is that ?

How fair is it to all visiting teams (whether club or country) who take the field and fans in the stands who come to a game not expecting and certainly not looking forward to hearing racist chants yelled within earshot to have to put up with that type of ignorant crap?

You're right in that it's not the club's fault if such neanderthals show up to matches. However, it does become the club's fault if employees of the club/stadium (stewards and security) don't take reactive action to kick offenders to the curb and proactive action to ensure that there are no repeat offenders.

Originally Posted by mg91

In my opinion the club itself should be punishing the offenders. If they don't then they are just as bad as the fans doing it and hence should be punished. The clubs themselves are the most important part of getting the message across, so if they're not doing their part, they should be punished.

Exactly.

[Prongs]

All the football clubs are obviously against racism .

You don't see a ground where any club encourages it . When found guilty , personally , people have been punished .

What more can a club do ? No racism boards hang everywhere . Yet if the idiots exist , there is not anything the club can do .

As i said , what could be done is to, have cameras watching the spectators ... Its not all that costly , and they don't need someone to monitor it , but if there is racism involved , they can do well by watching those videos .

But then again . I would be pissed if a couple of idiots make us lose points or for that matter , every club fan would feel the same .