[funkdoctorspock]

Originally Posted by GocartMozart

well i may have missed the point, but if you're arguing that eto'o is world class and Dimitar is not, then your numbers don't support that claim. Berbatov's numbers look pretty god damn good, especially considering the side Ero'o has been in the last four years, and that Dimitar was on a subpar Leverkusen and Spurs teams. Now if your argument is that Eto'o can come cheaper, I don't think you really can make that argument without a bid. Clearly the papers aren't even willing to link us.

As for personality traits. All I know is that you get a player who is hungry, and wants to be in a red shirt scoring goals. Neither can you say that Eto'o would be less tempermental coming off the bench as often.

Ditimar is not world class. And the numbers do support this because his numbers are from the Bundelsliga, which the last time I checked, is arguably the 4th best league in Europe. Should we also say Klaas Jan Huntelaar is World Class because he bangs them in for Ajax? How about Mario Gomez for Stuttgart?

Add to that he was the go to guy there as well as with Spurs.

When was Eto'o the go to guy for Barcelona?

Berbatov takes way more shots to score, which to me is an alarming stat within itself.

Furthermore, what exactly has Berbatov done to be deemed World Class? By no means am I saying United need a World Class striker, but riddle me that question...

Eto'o can be valued for just about what United's offer to Berbatov is. You've read the Eto'o + 10 million for Adebayor? You know that Arsenal has slapped a 36 million dollar fee on his head? 36-10... Eto'o's value according to Barcelona.

Paper links to Eto'o or anyone else does not mean that there aren't better players from which United could/should be spending 28 million pounds. That was my argument. Along with Berbatov's "sunny" Ruud-like attitude.

Again, I would like to point out that Berbatov or any striker United are looking to bring in, by splashing the cash [upwards of 30 million pounds], will get ample amounts of starts. Enough so that they won't be complaining hopefully.

Err, last point I think quite a few Spurs fans will tell you that Berbatov didn't look too hungry to win last season. He was a malcontent that was doing everything possible to get out of dodge. Why anyone would think this behaviour will do a complete 180 is rather astounding.

EDIT: DC, I just read your comment and its spot on. If Berbatov was so fixated in coming to United, why the fack did he go to Spurs, resulting in a possible 13 additional million that United have to fork out...

[GocartMozart]

Originally Posted by funkdoctorspock

Ditimar is not world class. And the numbers do support this because his numbers are from the Bundelsliga, which the last time I checked, is arguably the 4th best league in Europe. Should we also say Klaas Jan Huntelaar is World Class because he bangs them in for Ajax? How about Mario Gomez for Stuttgart?

Add to that he was the go to guy there as well as with Spurs.

When was Eto'o the go to guy for Barcelona?

If Eto'o was so world class why would barca not be in need of his services any longer. Clearly something is wrong there, and it's the muppet sticker you're placing on players heads. It's not a distinquishing characteristic. Now I'm not going to argue over whether he is or isn't, or whether Berba fits in that category. Let's can the world class label, because that's just a bullshit popularity contest purely based on the fact that Eto'o has played at barca and been successful, and Berba has been stuck at Leverkusen and Spurs.

As for comparing leagues, I'd love to, particularly when we look at their stats. Barca who for two of the last four years has been the most brilliant offensive team in Europe, had Eto'o at the head of their offense, while Dimitar had who from the Leverkusen team? Even better he had Robbie Keane as his go to man at Spurs. I'd like to point out that outside of United, the most potent offense last season was Spurs. It's obviously that the 2007 stats are far more accurate than the 2005 stats, but don't act like stats that are on a goal per attempt basis + assists aren't fairly close. I just don't see how your numbers support that Eto'o is that much better. I think it's very arguable, and if anything makes me think that Berba has just been underutilized everywhere he's gone. Fact of the matter is that you haven't seen his best, because he hasn't played with the best. You can't say that about Eto'o.

And the fact that Berba is the go to guy, yet Eto'o isn't, is not a positive, it's a negative against Eto'o. I want the offensive leader to be on my team, to take up the cause and be the person I need to score in stoppage time.

Originally Posted by funkdoctorspock

Berbatov takes way more shots to score, which to me is an alarming stat within itself.

Did you look at your stats? I don't disagree that Eto'o has a better percentage, in fact it's a significantly better percentage. Does that tell the entire story? no it doesn't. Berba has a strike rate of about 25% which if you do this often, you'll know is a very high percentage. Rooney i think has averaged about 16% while ronaldo has averaged about 29% the last two years (off the top of my head). However the striking thing about your stats is how FEW chances Eto'o does in fact take. 80 shots for a season is a decent understandable number, so neither is he wasteful, and neither does he take too many shots for a striker.

I can't argue against Eto'o's 2006 season. It was fantastic and very few players in barca history have had that sort of season, and not even Ronaldo was as efficient as Eto'o was that year. Ronaldo also took about 75% more shots on goal, but then Eto'o was also surrounded by a bomb squad while Berbatov was still at Leverkusen.

The last thing I can bring into this is the assist numbers, which are drastically in favor of Berbatov and make Robbie "the scouse loving cunt" Keane look like a king.

Originally Posted by funkdoctorspock

Furthermore, what exactly has Berbatov done to be deemed World Class? By no means am I saying United need a World Class striker, but riddle me that question...

Eto'o can be valued for just about what United's offer to Berbatov is. You've read the Eto'o + 10 million for Adebayor? You know that Arsenal has slapped a 36 million dollar fee on his head? 36-10... Eto'o's value according to Barcelona.

So this is your value for money argument? So you're saying that 28 million pounds is less value for money than 26 for Eto'o. I'd like first to point out how retarded both these numbers are and it's best to alwyas question their accuracy, but back to your point number two. Value of money implies that you've chosen the significantly more expensive choice over something that was similar for far cheaper. The other possible assumption is that Eto'o is significantly better than Berbatov, and I can't tell you that. Assuming 28million and 26million are accurate (they're rubbish, but whatever) you can't look at that and not throw your hands up. Is knowing that one player will be successful in England worth an extra 2 million quid? Is the fact that barca doesn't want Eto'o worth 2 million? Is Eto'o going from Barcelona to United (what he might see as a horizontal shift, as opposed to a serious new challenge) be worth the difference? Who knows, but clearly this is too close to use a value for the money argument. The numbers particularly if you look at their overall offensive output are on par in my opinion, outside of the single season Eto'o was just brilliant.

Originally Posted by funkdoctorspock

Paper links to Eto'o or anyone else does not mean that there aren't better players from which United could/should be spending 28 million pounds. That was my argument. Along with Berbatov's "sunny" Ruud-like attitude.

Again, I would like to point out that Berbatov or any striker United are looking to bring in, by splashing the cash [upwards of 30 million pounds], will get ample amounts of starts. Enough so that they won't be complaining hopefully.

Err, last point I think quite a few Spurs fans will tell you that Berbatov didn't look too hungry to win last season. He was a malcontent that was doing everything possible to get out of dodge. Why anyone would think this behaviour will do a complete 180 is rather astounding.

EDIT: DC, I just read your comment and its spot on. If Berbatov was so fixated in coming to United, why the fack did he go to Spurs, resulting in a possible 13 additional million that United have to fork out...

please bring in the malcontent arguments, because you know, Eto'o looked thrilled last season, and he hasn't had his own personality issues. This argument is a wash and if anything you're making a big deal over it.

While I definitely have some bulgarian bias, I don't think I've been biased against Eto'o. I think he's a fantastic player and either would make a great addition, if you look at stats. I have a personal opinion that Berba's style might fit better, I also may think that his ambition might make him omore motivated, but that's all subjective criteria. I personally removed those from any of my arguments, however Funky as the leading Eto'o fan on here, and the "FOUNDER OF THE KEEP BERBATOV AWAY FROM UNITED CAMPAIGN!!!" I can't look at this and think that you might have taken too subjective an approach to analyzing these two. They're both fantastic players and it's hard to tell which one is worth more for the money. I certainly can't tell you. What I can say is that if the rumors of Berba in red are true, I have very little doubt in our ability to retain our trophies. I could probably say the same thing of Eto'o.

[simonhla]

Wow, I love this place! Thanks Funkdoctorspock for your measured reply but i'm afraid as you have done with me I am going to have to respectfully disagre with you.

If we compare Eto'o and berbatov on a number of fronts i think it becomes pretty apparent why the latter is the bestter choice:

1. Age and style of play. Well if I have my facts right, both players are 27. Only one of them relies on dramatic changes of pace and twist turns to be at his most effective. An attribute which I have always contended is the first to be stripped by the ravages of time.

2. Injury history. Berbatov, if my knowledge serves me correctly has a pretty clean one, whereas Eto'o has had a couple of serious lay offs. The last of these lay off's was for around 6 to 9 months and since his return he has looked a yard short of the blistering pace he once had.

3. Temperament. Berbatov may have throw his shirt, may have had a huff or two but lets not forget that some of our best players have been temperamental. Le King? Eto'o on the other hand is a different kind of temperamental, he is merely flat out belligerent. This is a player who has refused to play for Barcelona (publically) and critized his fellow team mates and coach (again highly publically). He has a history of unfortunate public behaviour, something I witnessed at close quarters when I lived in Spain.

4. Talent. Don't get me wrong here. I have always though Eto'o was an absolutely fantastic forward. Two years ago I felt that it was between him and Drogba for who was hands down the best striker in the world. In the last 18 months though his form and stock seem to have taken a noticable tumble. Eto'o rose to the top early, he arrived in Madrid on a plane from Cameroon at age 16, touted as the next big thing. He then spent years on loan (eventually half owned by) at Real Mallorca, only to re-emerge at Barcelona. There are some question marks that he may be a little burnt out. There are also some question marks over his real age. When I was living in Spain there were some rumors that club doctors had suspected he was older than 16 when he arrived, such was his development compared to others of similar age. This has always been an issue with african born and raised talent. The same rumor mongers also say that Geremi (who recently moved to newcastle) is about 40. Jose Mourinho made such a comment himself.

Berbatov has an altogether different skill set and seems to be just reaching the peak of his game, he appears to still have the capacity to improve whereas all signs indicate we have seen the best of Eto'o already.

5. Suitability. Both players, tactically at least, have the required level of suitability but only Berbatov canprovide the all round skill set he does. Whereas Eto'o can drop deep and hurt you from several areas, he is still primarily an explosive poacher. Berb's is everything from a provider to a poacher, not to mention the aerial threat, an aspect of Eto'o's game which is not his strongest suit.

6. Valuation. We are specualting completely about waht it would cost to sign either players as we only have the rumor mill to fuel our debate. I have a feeling they will both move for similar fees. It says a lot though that not even the departure of Ronaldinho (a famous nemesis of Eto'o) and the appointment of a new coach have prusuaded Barcelona to hang on to Eto'o. They clearly want shot of him. What does that tell you? beware damaged goods. There's been so little speculation surrounding him, it almost seems like there is a well known cautionary tale going around football circles.

7. World class or not world class? It's a very subjective thing. For a start to be considered world class, i think it approopriate that one have a world stage to perform on. Eto'o has had that at Barca and in the CL, Berbatov hasn't. So to compare the two is spurious. Then if we come to the stats, it is also hard to compare. Two different types of players, playing in teams of two completely different standards. More apples and oranges.

My personal opinion on the strikers which are on Utd's radar or should be:

a. Ibrahimovich. Super, fantastic, wonderful. Has it all, would be perfect. Possibility of signing him from a Jose Mourinho led Inter? Zero.
b. Berbatov. The next best thing in the same mould. Available and has all the skill set to completment what Utd already have. Potentially world class.
c. Karim Benzema. I firmly believe he can and will be the best striker in the world. Pricing is prohibitive and as a poster on another thread noted, he has already said he fancies Madrid (and I am not sure we need another of those).
d. David Villa. Was once superb, but has waned a little. Would rather have kept Rossi than sign another midget from elsewhere for ten times as much. We have enough dwarves already.
e. Samuel Eto'o. Was once a deadly player but there are question marks over his recovery from his latest injury and the effect it has had on his game. Is the bad boy/wild child of Spanish football. I'd steer clear. (although not ot be surprised at all if someone picks him up and he is an enormous success).
f. Klaas Jan Huntelaar. Over rated and one dimensional. Has a terrific goal tally in a third tier league. Has a soft spot in the heart of Utd fans who are reminded of RVN. Not up to the task.
g. Falcao. Never seen him play.
h. Sergio Aguero. Has the potential to be even better than Messi. Wonderful, wonderful player. Almost beyond comprehension. Another midget though. Would not be the player the club needs right now.

[funkdoctorspock]

Originally Posted by GocartMozart

If Eto'o was so world class why would barca not be in need of his services any longer. Clearly something wrong there, and it's the muppet sticker you're places on players heads. It's not a distinquishing characteristic. Now I'm not going to argue over whether he is or isn't, or whether Berba fits in that category. Let's can the world class label, because that's just a bullshit popularity contest purely based on the fact that Eto'o has played at barca and been successful, and Berba has been stuck at Leverkusen and Spurs.

Well since I also follow Barcelona a lot, I can easily tell you why Barcelona is pushing out Eto'o.

The new manager wants a fresh start. He wants to be his own man and in doing so he is facking up a squad that needed only minor changes.

Ask any Barcelona fan if they want to see Eto'o go and the VAST majority will say no. He is a clinical striker that loves the club and wants to win!!!

Secondly, you'll have to look no further than the thread starter with regards to Berbatov and the label World Class, which I responded to.

Yes World Class is subjective, and still I don't see how Berbatov can be labelled one by any sane person.

Originally Posted by GocartMozart

As for comparing leagues, I'd love to, particularly when we look at their stats. Barca who for two of the last four years has been the most brilliant offensive team in Europe, had Eto'o at the head of their offense, while Dimitar had who from the Leverkusen team? Even better he had Robbie Keane as his go to man at Spurs. I'd like to point out that outside of United, the most potent offense last season was Spurs. It's obviously that the 2007 stats are far more accurate than the 2005 stats, but don't act like stats that are on a goal per attempt basis + assists aren't fairly close. I just don't see how your numbers support that Eto'o is that much better. I think it's very arguable, and if anything makes me think that Berba has just been underutilized everywhere he's gone. Fact of the matter is that you haven't seen his best, because he hasn't played with the best. You can't say that about Eto'o.

This assessment is a steaming pile of cow dong [No not our lovable Dong in reserves] on so many levels, that I'll now break it down for you:

i. The last two seasons Eto'o has been injured. Furthermore, last season there offense was beyond terrible. They were struggling to score. The disconnect between the midfield and the forward line was glaring. This was over the course of the WHOLE season, which is why there league standing was crap. So for Eto'o to score 16 goals in 18 league matches, is nothing short of stunning. This done, coming off a major injury.

ii. Barcelona's attack is not centered around Eto'o. You can keep dreaming this, but it is not true. It never was.

You mention Berbatov had Robbie Keane. You do realize that Eto'o was scoring all his goals as a lone striker right?

iii. The most brilliant of anything means nothing if you can't convert your chances at an efficient rate. The shots on goal for Eto'o and Berbatov are rather staggering. The stat is shots on goal. What else would they be doing if they weren't trying to score? You do realize they have another stat simply called shots which is the one you want lumped in with shots on goal.

iv. There are players that have played without the best around them and have played to there best. To now present that the best is yet to come from Berbatov because he'll be playing with some of the best is simply asinine. You really think that he'll be scoring and assisting a lot more at United than at Spurs or Leverkusen?

Case in point. Ronaldo [now known as Fat Ronaldo]. Had his best years with Barcelona with some very good players. Eventually made his way to Real Madrid, which had the best of the best players. How did he do compared to his Barcelona years?

Originally Posted by GocartMozart

And the fact that Berba is the go to guy, yet Eto'o isn't, is not a positive, it's a negative against Eto'o. I want the offensive leader to be on my team, to take up the cause and be the person I need to score in stoppage time.

You can't be serious?

Seriously?

You do realize how many of Eto'o's goals drew matches level or won them for Barcelona?

Seriously?

Originally Posted by GocartMozart

Did you look at your stats? I don't disagree that Eto'o has a better percentage, in fact it's a significantly better percentage. Does that tell the entire story? no it doesn't. Berba has a strike rate of about 25% which if you do this often, you'll know is a very high percentage. Rooney i think has averaged about 16% while ronaldo has averaged about 29% the last two years (off the top of my head). However the striking thing about your stats is how FEW chances Eto'o does in fact take. 80 shots for a season is a decent understandable number, so neither is he wasteful, and neither does he take too many shots for a striker.

Disagree with that. Especially if he is the focal point of the attack. I believe Robbie Keane's conversion rate is higher with fewer shots.

For the needs of United, finding a striker who can find the back of the net at an excellent rate is paramount. We have a ton of players that can provide assists. Other than Ronaldo, we need to have someone find the back of the net among the strikers.

Again, for the amount of money United is prepared to spend, they could get someone who does this at a higher rate.

Originally Posted by GocartMozart

I can't argue against Eto'o's 2006 season. It was fantastic and very few players in barca history have had that sort of season, and not even Ronaldo was as efficient as Eto'o was that year. Ronaldo also took about 75% more shots on goal, but then Eto'o was also surrounded by a bomb squad while Berbatov was still at Leverkusen.

At the end of the day, you have to put the ball in the back of the net.

I can without hesitation put my right testicle (I love my left one) up for chopping if Berbatov could score as many or more goals than Eto'o during his time at United.

Eto'o is the more prolific striker. Berbatov is a jack of all trades, unfortunately scoring less than that of Eto'o.

How many jack of all trade players do United need?

United need goal scorers, not forward assist men.

Originally Posted by GocartMozart

The last thing I can bring into this is the assist numbers, which are drastically in favor of Berbatov and make Robbie "the scouse loving cunt" Keane look like a king.

Keane has just as many assists. That's how the Spuds attack is structured.

Do we need another striker passing up the ball, or do we need one finding the back of the net?

Originally Posted by GocartMozart

So this is your value for money argument? So you're saying that 28 million pounds is less value for money than 26 for Eto'o. I'd like first to point out how retarded both these numbers are and it's best to alwyas question their accuracy, but back to your point number two. Value of money implies that you've chosen the significantly more expensive choice over something that was similar for far cheaper.

I simply stated that if United were going to spend 28 million pounds, there are better strikers available.

Nothing more, nothing less

Originally Posted by GocartMozart

The other possible assumption is that Eto'o is significantly better than Berbatov, and I can't tell you that.

This point really isn't debatable and yet you've been trying to argue it.

I would call you a muppet, but no muppet would make the assumption that you just stated. So you would simply have to be a lunatic to think that what you stated is true.

Originally Posted by GocartMozart

Assuming 28million and 26million are accurate (they're rubbish, but whatever) you can't look at that and not throw your hands up. Is knowing that one player will be successful in England worth an extra 2 million quid?

I don't call scoring 12 goals one year and 15 goals the next, worth either of those dollars rumoured.

Furthermore, United are fortunate to have a system in place that is quite similiar to Barcelona's.

There really shouldn't be a doubt whether Eto'o would be successful or not. What would be in doubt is how many teams would get there asses stomped by United if Eto'o was the striker in the attack.

Seriously...

Originally Posted by GocartMozart

Is the fact that barca doesn't want Eto'o worth 2 million? Is Eto'o going from Barcelona to United (what he might see as a horizontal shift, as opposed to a serious new challenge) be worth the difference? Who knows, but clearly this is too close to use a value for the money argument. The numbers particularly if you look at their overall offensive output are on par in my opinion, outside of the single season Eto'o was just brilliant.

Again, read the first part of the thread to understand why Barcelona is trying to offload Eto'o.

And yes, its worth way more than 2 million, because you are arguably getting one of the best strikers in the world.

He wants to win. He wants to be on a team that is serious about winning on all fronts. He plays hard all the time and always puts gives it his all. ALWAYS!!!

Originally Posted by GocartMozart

Please bring in the malcontent arguments, because you know, Eto'o looked thrilled last season, and he hasn't had his own personality issues. This argument is a wash and if anything you're making a big deal over it.

He has had 3 incidents over the course of 4 years. Want to hear what they are?

1. The Guard of honour incident - refused to participate in it because he hates Madrid.
2. Dressing Room unrest - Barcelona's factioned team, which he made light of. Laporta's boys and the Brazilians.
3. Assualt on Press in cameroon - Because the reporter was being a daft cnut.

So, those are the three. Would you like me to run through the laundry list of Berbatov's???

As for the refusing to play in a match. Frank told him to warm up, in a super short period of time when he just came off a major injury.

When Frank looked to call him in, it was at the 89 min with 2 mins of extra time if I remember correct. Ummm, Eto'o just coming off a major injury where you had him warming up for a short period of time, to play for 3 minutes? The assistant waved Eto'o off from warming up and Eto'o agreed. So seriously, this is Eto'o's fault?

Eto'o has had 2 major injuries on the same knee over two years. In both instances he was able to come back playing at a high rate.

As for Africans and ages. I'm not going there. That's simply not an angle that should be taken for Eto'o.

Originally Posted by GocartMozart

While I definitely have some bulgarian bias, I don't think I've been biased against Eto'o. I think he's a fantastic player and either would make a great addition, if you look at stats. I have a personal opinion that Berba's style might fit better, I also may think that his ambition might make him omore motivated, but that's all subjective criteria. I personally removed those from any of my arguments, however Funky as the leading Eto'o fan on here, and the "FOUNDER OF THE KEEP BERBATOV AWAY FROM UNITED CAMPAIGN!!!" I can't look at this and think that you might have taken too subjective an approach to analyzing these two. They're both fantastic players and it's hard to tell which one is worth more for the money. I certainly can't tell you. What I can say is that if the rumors of Berba in red are true, I have very little doubt in are ability to retain our trophies. I could probably say the same thing of Eto'o.

The reason I am the founder of keep Berbatov away from United, is not because I don't think he's a talented forward, it is because of his pricetag. He isn't worth the money he was rumoured for last year and definitely isn't worth the money he is rumoured for this term.

If there is a 2 million dollar price difference between a striker that is better than another and fills the needs of the team better, why would you go and get the opposite for 2 million less? Just so you don't lose face for not getting him the season before?

As for retaining our trophies, that is new bag of worms, for a new thread. I do believe that another striker has to be in the fold, especially with Ronaldo out till late September/early October if United want to challenge for the EPL title.

btw guys, thank you so much for this debate. I've been twiddling my thumbs all summer to talk about United. You all have made my forum day!!!

[abhiramj]

Originally Posted by simonhla

Wow, I love this place! Thanks Funkdoctorspock for your measured reply but i'm afraid as you have done with me I am going to have to respectfully disagre with you.

If we compare Eto'o and berbatov on a number of fronts i think it becomes pretty apparent why the latter is the bestter choice:

1. Age and style of play. Well if I have my facts right, both players are 27. Only one of them relies on dramatic changes of pace and twist turns to be at his most effective. An attribute which I have always contended is the first to be stripped by the ravages of time.

2. Injury history. Berbatov, if my knowledge serves me correctly has a pretty clean one, whereas Eto'o has had a couple of serious lay offs. The last of these lay off's was for around 6 to 9 months and since his return he has looked a yard short of the blistering pace he once had.

3. Temperament. Berbatov may have throw his shirt, may have had a huff or two but lets not forget that some of our best players have been temperamental. Le King? Eto'o on the other hand is a different kind of temperamental, he is merely flat out belligerent. This is a player who has refused to play for Barcelona (publically) and critized his fellow team mates and coach (again highly publically). He has a history of unfortunate public behaviour, something I witnessed at close quarters when I lived in Spain.

4. Talent. Don't get me wrong here. I have always though Eto'o was an absolutely fantastic forward. Two years ago I felt that it was between him and Drogba for who was hands down the best striker in the world. In the last 18 months though his form and stock seem to have taken a noticable tumble. Eto'o rose to the top early, he arrived in Madrid on a plane from Cameroon at age 16, touted as the next big thing. He then spent years on loan (eventually half owned by) at Real Mallorca, only to re-emerge at Barcelona. There are some question marks that he may be a little burnt out. There are also some question marks over his real age. When I was living in Spain there were some rumors that club doctors had suspected he was older than 16 when he arrived, such was his development compared to others of similar age. This has always been an issue with african born and raised talent. The same rumor mongers also say that Geremi (who recently moved to newcastle) is about 40. Jose Mourinho made such a comment himself.

Berbatov has an altogether different skill set and seems to be just reaching the peak of his game, he appears to still have the capacity to improve whereas all signs indicate we have seen the best of Eto'o already.

5. Suitability. Both players, tactically at least, have the required level of suitability but only Berbatov canprovide the all round skill set he does. Whereas Eto'o can drop deep and hurt you from several areas, he is still primarily an explosive poacher. Berb's is everything from a provider to a poacher, not to mention the aerial threat, an aspect of Eto'o's game which is not his strongest suit.

6. Valuation. We are specualting completely about waht it would cost to sign either players as we only have the rumor mill to fuel our debate. I have a feeling they will both move for similar fees. It says a lot though that not even the departure of Ronaldinho (a famous nemesis of Eto'o) and the appointment of a new coach have prusuaded Barcelona to hang on to Eto'o. They clearly want shot of him. What does that tell you? beware damaged goods. There's been so little speculation surrounding him, it almost seems like there is a well known cautionary tale going around football circles.

7. World class or not world class? It's a very subjective thing. For a start to be considered world class, i think it approopriate that one have a world stage to perform on. Eto'o has had that at Barca and in the CL, Berbatov hasn't. So to compare the two is spurious. Then if we come to the stats, it is also hard to compare. Two different types of players, playing in teams of two completely different standards. More apples and oranges.

My personal opinion on the strikers which are on Utd's radar or should be:

a. Ibrahimovich. Super, fantastic, wonderful. Has it all, would be perfect. Possibility of signing him from a Jose Mourinho led Inter? Zero.
b. Berbatov. The next best thing in the same mould. Available and has all the skill set to completment what Utd already have. Potentially world class.
c. Karim Benzema. I firmly believe he can and will be the best striker in the world. Pricing is prohibitive and as a poster on another thread noted, he has already said he fancies Madrid (and I am not sure we need another of those).
d. David Villa. Was once superb, but has waned a little. Would rather have kept Rossi than sign another midget from elsewhere for ten times as much. We have enough dwarves already.
e. Samuel Eto'o. Was once a deadly player but there are question marks over his recovery from his latest injury and the effect it has had on his game. Is the bad boy/wild child of Spanish football. I'd steer clear. (although not ot be surprised at all if someone picks him up and he is an enormous success).
f. Klaas Jan Huntelaar. Over rated and one dimensional. Has a terrific goal tally in a third tier league. Has a soft spot in the heart of Utd fans who are reminded of RVN. Not up to the task.
g. Falcao. Never seen him play.
h. Sergio Aguero. Has the potential to be even better than Messi. Wonderful, wonderful player. Almost beyond comprehension. Another midget though. Would not be the player the club needs right now.

Well that is very comprehensive.....
Two more things:


1) He is a proven goal scorer in the Premier League. KJH/Benzema not.
2) Versatility. Can play through the whole of attacking moves. Very United like. Ummmm... you already said that, although not in that fashion.

Well, I was gunning for DB and Fergie didn't disappoint me.
funkdoctorspock loosen up a little, DB will have an excellent 09 campaign with United. Thanks to simonhla, couldn't have put it better myself.

[GocartMozart]

I'll sum up Funky's stance:

Eto'o is hella cool, and I want to have upteen of his children. Dimitar has that weird headband thing that is just not cool.

Gocart's stance:

Dimitar gets hated on too much. Bulgarian pride!!!!!!

simonhla stance:

Karim ftw, but we be too poor. Berbatov then!

to the rest of the forum...you're welcome

[dimz]

Well! Took me long enough to read that stuff. Well done boys! I'm sorry to say my response won't be as epic, but i'll put in my two cents.

First off, Funks sorry to say but you're man crush for Eto'o needs to end here. I just had to say that, even though my argument won't go into that.

So i figure i'll sidestep all the 'emotional' logic and the money talk (because when comparing transfer fees, your'e never comparing apples to apples due to the difference in clubs selling the players, leagues the clubs are in, clubs buying the players, etc.) and give an argument based on abilities and United needs. Everyone's agreed that we need a striker. A 'number 9' type who can do different things to Rooney and Tevez. So let's just see what those are:

1) Heading
2) Finishing
3) Hold-up play/Target man

I see those as qualities that United lack the most in the front line. I'm sure we can all agree that both Berbatov and Eto'o are better finishers than Rooney and Tevez. We all know the little shrimpers can't head....nor are they possessing the ability or size to play hold-up striker. So let's compare the two suggested options:

1) Heading: I think it's plain as day that Berbatov (though not a Crespo or Bierhoff or Dwight Yorke) is very very good with his head and is better than Samuel Eto'o. So, short and decisive, 1st point goes to Dimitar.

Dimitar 1 - 0 Samuel

2) Finishing: Though this can be debated, i'm of the opinion that Samuel Eto'o is not the more composed finisher of the two. I love the Cameroonian but i just feel that based on what i've seen, Berbatov would be cooler in front of goal given the same opportunities. I cannot however argue against the statistics, which suggest that Eto'o has a much better percentage of goals to shots. In that case, i'll give this one to Samuel, since my only counter argument is based on my opinion.

Dimitar 1 - 1 Samuel

3) Hold-up play: This point i don't think can be argued. I think it's fair to say that Dimitar is better at playing the lone striker role (despite what you think Funky, Eto'o wasn't really a lone striker in Barcelona's system....the formation might look that way but it was never really setup like that). Berbatov is bigger, better with his head at supplying knock-downs and flick-ons, and most key of all, doesn't have the tendency to track back and stick himself into midfield as much. This is important because, while i love Eto'o's attitude of tracking back and working hard....that's not the type of player a hold-up/target man really is meant to be. Besides, with Tevez and/or Rooney playing behind him, why would he need to track back? Berbatov is the better hold-up/target man.

Dimitar 2 - 1 Samuel

There....it's settled, Berbatov is the better option based on United's needs and the players' abilities.

Thanks for playing.

[simonhla]

Tottenham are now playing silly buggers which is quite amusing. They have insisted today that Berbatov is not for sale. I am not really sure who they think they are kidding. Clearly the objective is to extort as much money from Utd as possible. Personally I don't think Utd are likely to fall for that.

The bottom line as far as Spurs are concerned is that they have spent around 85M in the last two transfer windows (crickey...where did it all go?) and with the expected arrival of Bentley for 15-17M it is unthinkable that they won't sell Berbatov. Lets also not forget that he is desperate to leave.

Daniel Levy, their Chairman, is (if you wil forgive me saying this) a total weirdo. He has a reputation in football circles for being an extremely difficult person to deal with and is apparently still fuming over that fact he wished he'd gotten more for Carrick. I just have to ask where are Spurs getting all this money? They aren't in the CL, they don't have a sugar daddy, they don't have a big stadium and they haven't won anything for ages (league cup....blah). Although I get the impression of fiduciary duty, as they are run seemingly professionally, it does smack of Risdale and Leeds Utd. How long can they keep this up without actually finishing in the top 4. 100M is a lot for a mid table club to spend, especially when they haven't recouped much.